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Author Topic: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje  (Read 6642 times)

Tavychevsky

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Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« on: September 28, 2012, 09:43:45 PM »
Acest video este destul de exhaustiv in a prezenta cele mai importante tipuri de proiectile si cum tancurile incearca sa se apere.
Am dat peste el incercand sa gasesc o prezentare animata despre cum functioneaza proiectilele HEAT (am auzit acum cateva zile o discutie pe TS despre HEAT cum ca ar functiona prin topirea blindajului si explozia in interior = gresit. Efectul de penetrare al HEAT este pur kinetic, jetul de metal rezultat din topirea carcasei interioare a proiectilului, acel con, numit liner, ajungand si la 14 km/s, viteza mult superioara oricarui proiectil perforant clasic).



O animatie foarte explicita despre cum functioneaza aceste shaped charged, in cazul de fata pentru explorarea resurselor petroliere subacvatice:



Aspecte importante la proiectilele HEAT, care merita stiute:
1. cel mai primitiv proiectil HEAT putea perfora un blindaj gros de 1,5 ori calibrul proiectilului;
2. s-a constatat ca miscarea de rotatie a proiectilului, vitala pentru stabilitatea pe traiectorie afecteaza penetrarea, asa ca proiectilele moderne au incaractura stabilizata, doar fundul proiectilului (sau doar caracasa exterioara) rotindu-se;
3. o alta constatatare este ca eficienta penetrarii creste considerabil daca incaracatura este detonata la oarece distanta de blindaj, asigurand spatiu pentru jet sa se formeze complet, de aceea proiectilele cumulative nu au o forma ogivala, aerodinamica, ci arata ca un cilindru cu o tepusa in varf, vezi foto:



Sper ca materialul a fost destul de instructiv, enjoy !
You're thinkin' did he fire six shots or only five? Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But bein' this is a SA 47, the most tricky tank cannon in the world, you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?!

duras

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Re: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 03:31:48 PM »
Stayin' alive
                                                    

unsafe

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Re: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 10:52:45 AM »
Explicatii pentru penetrare si 0 damage:

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/145827-strzaly-za-zero-z-czym-to-sie-je/page__hl__dac

Hello all.
since about shots to zero returns with insane regularity I think it does not hurt to mention what the mechanic is behind this effect and what it's all about. For clarification: shot for zero means a situation in which we found the enemy but did not address on any visible damage. He did not lose even a single HP. Such effects are observed in several cases. Let's start with the most obvious:

the first shot hit the tank, but do not enter into the hull and pierced any part of the armor. Such hits most often suspended - the bullet hit the wheels or tracks, damaged but it did not come into contact with Kałuba tank. But this is not the end of the game. Hitting the fender, or a fragment armored screens will also be seen as a hit for zero - the bullet hit the target, but did not damage the hull because it did not hit. Further, often the case looks like, the shoot to the side of the vehicle, the bullet falls somewhere low, we hit, and again there is no loss of HP. Why? missile has a certain ability to armor penetration. If the projectile along the way przjedzie by Ochran armored or piece of equipment which also has a thickness that decreases its ability to penetrate - dissipate energy. Therefore, for example, it happens that a missile hit the driving wheel that is considered such as 10mm thick armor, then another wheel (and the German suspension very easy for something like that), then another one, and when it comes to the hull is no longer enough energy to penetrate thin armor in place. effect? ​​shot perfectly in goal, zero damage. If the suspension has been damaged, it does not see the effect.

2nd Shot hit the tank, pierced the armor but not quite. This is another, very annoying situation. bullet that fired hit the target perfectly hit the armor plate ... and nothing. Why? There is a similar situation to the one above - a bullet pierced the armor layer, but he did not have enough energy to penetrate into the interior of the vehicle. This situation often encountered especially in the case of tanks with additional armor or armor layer. A good example of this is the Super Pershing - the front of the tank in a few places have a minimum of two layers of armor and bullet often easily trumps the first one, but it loses so much energy that it is no longer able to bite another. Similarly, additional screens operate armored whether additional side armor of tanks (IS 3, IS 4, IS 7) - bullet hits the relatively thin outer shell, it loses some of the energy and then has to face even with the proper armor side, much thicker and in addition inclined. Therefore, it often hits IS on the side of the tanks causing no loss of HP. The tank was hit, but failed to break through all the layers of armor. should note here that the same hull number of tanks has its own thin armor - where a bullet has little penetration and butt sometimes it goes through the armor of a tank but it runs out of a few mm to enter the hull. These are rare situations - but goes up.

But that's not all. third missile hit the tank, pierced the armor layer ALL and did not ask injuries. now here comes the fun part of the inside of the tank and what's going on inside. effect, which I'm writing takes place in the two cases, call them a and b, a The bullet penetrated all layers of armor, then hit the module which caused all the damage. In this case, we observe no loss of HP, but will be damaged or even destroyed module or injured crew member. It is this type of hits are the most common cause when we hear "Critical Hit!" and the enemy does not lose even a single HP. He made ​​our shell stew inside, but ran out of energy to take additional HP. b The bullet penetrated all layers of armor, and did not hit any element inside the tank. These are much rarer situations, because the inside of the tank is relatively tightly packed modules and crew members. However, in some cases, it happens that the projectile enters the target and then fly through without causing any damage. summarize shots to zero bug but are not the result of a more realistic approach to what happens when you hit the tank. There is no perfect solution, but in this way the armor does its job in a way closer to reality. Moreover - in history, there were both trivial kasowały vehicle that hit and hit the outside of cases where plate armor piercing does not cause serious harm or cause damage to the machine, but do not destroy it. , I hope that this mass of text to explain a little bit

Tavychevsky

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Re: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2012, 08:28:00 PM »
Situational awarness, o expresie magica, nu prea cunoscuta la noi, fiind inca ancorati in mentalitatea sovietica de dus razboaie si de construit tancuri.
Situational awarness inseamna, in cea mai pura limba romaneasca sa stii pe ce lume traiesti, adica sa fi constient de ce se intampla in jurul tau (multi poloneji rateaza asta desi au inclusiv mini-map).
In materie de situational awarness exista o diferenta uriasa intre tancurile germane si cele sovietice, caracteristica, foarte surprinzator, corect implementata de WG in WoT, prin view range-ul diverselor tancuri, de exemplu ca la KV-2, care desi are o turela uriasa, view range este de doar 330m, comparativ cu Panther care are 380m sau Tiger care are 370m.
Deci daca tocmai am tras concluzia ca inaltimea tancului nu este esentiala, care este totusi secretul ? Ati observat in joc sau prin muzee, toate acele mici perscoape de la oblonul comandantului de tanc, care sunt multe la nemti si deloc la sovietici ? Alea iti dau situational awarness.
Deja se stie ca la o incaierare de tancuri, intotdeauna germanii apucau sa traga cel putin 3 proiectile pana sa inceapa si tancul sovietic sa traga, pentru ca ciolavecul mai intai trebuia sa se dumireasca ce naiba se intampla si de unde naiba se trage.
Un exemplu celebru este al unei echipe anti-tanc germane dotata cu o pocnitoare, 37mm PAK 36 care a tras 23 de proiectile intr-un T-34, singurul lucru pe care au reusit sa-l realizeze a fost blocarea rulmentului turelei, iar echipajul sovietic nu a reusit in tot acest timp sa-si dea seama de unde se trage.
Deosebit de proasta constientizare a mediului inconjurator se datora faptului ca T-34 nu avea decat un periscop la comandant, comparativ cu tancurile germane care aveau o mini-turela cu vreo 6 periscoape, iar comandantul de tanc era si ochitor, iar daca mai era si comandant de pluton avea si mai multe atributiuni. Toate aceste neajunsuri se adaga la faptul ca acesti desculti, super-natia care vroia sa exporte comunismul, eliberandu-ne pe noi sarmanii ce traiam in capitalism, nu aveau nici macar statii radio pe tancuri.

Daca v-am trezit interesul si vreti sa cititi mai multe:
http://operationbarbarossa.net/Myth-Busters/MythBusters2.html

You're thinkin' did he fire six shots or only five? Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But bein' this is a SA 47, the most tricky tank cannon in the world, you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?!

Tavychevsky

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Re: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 07:16:13 PM »
Reportaj trimis de Tzava, caruia ii multumesc:
Броня России [10/10]

Este de urmarit pana la capat, chiar daca va dati domnisoare si nu recunoasteti ca ati invatat limba rusa cu asiduitate in scoala.
Ce am observat eu si arunc manusa pentru a porni o dezbatere pe tema asta, daca va tine cureaua:
1. Urmariti cu atentie demonstrativele facute de BMP-3 si BMD-3 cu tunul automat de 30mm. Observati ce vibratie ultra-vizibila are teava in momentul tragerii, oare abaterea de cativa centimetri !!! la gura tevii, in cati metri se traduce la obiectiv ?
2. Te umfla rasul sa vezi ca inca mai sunt tari care concep ofensive masive cu tehnica blindata specifice WWII si anilor '50, in era MLRS-ului care poate rade un regiment de tancuri dintr-o salva (nu degeaba i se mai spune "grid square REMOVAL system" de la patratele de 1km x 1km de harta pe care le poate curata dintr-o salva), a bombelor de aviatie cu submunitii inteligente sau a elicopterelor de asalt;
3. A fost de o candoare deosebita sa vad ca sistemele defensive ale tancurilor radar+racheta anti-racheta si acela cu proiectoare infrarosu ca sa orbeasca racheta autodirijata IR, sunt concepute strict pentru sectorul din fata tancului, ciolavecii ignorand faptul ca submunitia loveste intotdeauna de sus;
4. De notat faptul ca T-80U a fost dotat cu turbina cu gaz de 1250CP, la care T-90 a renuntat, preferandu-se motorul diesel de 840CP, mai slab, celui turbopropulsor, datorita faptului ca industria sovietica nu este in stare sa produca si ea un diesel serios, la concurenta cu vestul care foloseste curent diesele de 1500CP, si chiar si Romania care are TR-85M1, cu diesel de 860CP.
Daca mai observati si voi cate ceva, bagati aici.
You're thinkin' did he fire six shots or only five? Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But bein' this is a SA 47, the most tricky tank cannon in the world, you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?!

tancmic

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Re: Despre tancuri, proiectile si blindaje
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2014, 01:28:58 PM »
Mda, in realitate, acest tip de munitie este foarte eficienta, dar in jocuri cu tancuri , cel putin in world of tanks, prefer munitia simpla pentru ca este mai eficienta